Wikitravel:Travellers' pub

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The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the Mediawiki software, please post that on the Technical requests page on Wikitravel Shared instead.

[edit] Archives

Keeping the Pub clean is a group effort. If we have too many conversations on this page, it gets too noisy and hard to read. If you see a conversation that could or should be moved to a talk page, please do so, and note the move here.

If a conversation does not fit into any specific talk page, it should be archived to Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives and removed from here 3 months after the last comment in that discussion.

Stuff that's been moved to specific talk pages:

Also, see the Travellers' pub archives for older archived discussions.

[edit] Please sweep the pub

So, the TP has been getting kinda crowded and messy. I'd really appreciate if we could all make an effort to clean up a bit by moving discussions to places more appropriate or deleting discussions that have reached their conclusions. It's a tedious job, but like most, it's easier if we do it together. --Evan 16:44, 20 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Should we sweep this out? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:20, 16 August 2006 (EDT)
Ugh, this place is getting messy and this is the one page I hate to attempt to organize. Anyone want to take a stab at cleaning it up? -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 18:29, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
How do you sweep the pub? What are the rules? Anything older than a certain date? There is stuff on here that is many, many months old. Where would be a "place more appropriate" to move the discussions to? Kire1975 01:54, 20 July 2008 (EDT)
Also, I am using the Safari browser, from Apple, on my Windows Vista computer. For some reason the scroll bar on the right side of my edit screen isn't working properly, so the only way to get way down to the bottom of the screen is to grab some text and pull my cursor down to the bottom of the page. It gets really awkward. Cleaning up the pub could help me out with this problem. thanks, Kire1975 02:14, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

One more thing, when I click 'save" on the edit page, it takes a while to processs. Kire1975 04:31, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] How to sweep pub?

That's a good question! Our archiving explanation at the top of this page has become very convoluted—I'm honestly not sure how to sweep the pub anymore. Can anyone explain the revised process? --Peter Talk 00:18, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

I nominate receveli's "request for help" below to be swept out of the pub. the problem is solved. how is it done? the shared wikitravel pages has a pub cellar. Should we create something like that? Kire1975 22:19, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

I have got the broom out today and swept out some of the older stuff. Mostly into the archive pages but, where relevant, into Talk Pages for the destination under discussion. Where I've done the latter I have marked the discussion as "Swept in from the travellers pub" Tarr3n 07:44, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Wikimmigrant

I wanted to ask the Wikitravel community for a little help with a wiki that I'm trying to get launched - Wikimmigrant. I'm hoping that Wikimmigrant can complement Wikitravel by providing detailed immigration/visa rules and regulations for every nation on Earth and, possibly one day - Mars. A detailed account of explaining the application process and visa fees for every nation is obviously going to fall way outside the scope of Wikitravel's goals to provide relevant travel information, but for those of us in the world that want to up and go to Poland, Canada, Singapore, Mongolia, or India from the comfort (or discomfort - that's why Wikimmigrant will help explain obtaining refugee status in different countries) of our native lands, we should have a way to access that information in a central place.

Yes, there are expat websites that can give a person information and guidance on obtaining a work or residence permit for Country A, but, as we know with travel information, information can change quickly. So, if the parliament of Country A changes it's immigration laws, then the MediaWiki software will allow anyone with that knowledge to update Wikimmigrant and that information would be instantaneously available to the world, which is not true for many expat websites.

Anyhow, I could specifically use help developing policies, templates, and articles. I'd especially appreciate any help from someone with knowledge of CSS to design a spiffy main page. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 21:42, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Does this need a "co-operating with ..." page? Mention in an index? Pashley 09:58, 27 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Copenhagen/Østerbro Star nomination

I'm hard at work giving Copenhagen a huge notch up in the scale, hoping to make it DoTM when it hosts the World Outgames in August - And i think my home district, has ended up quite good. So please head over and comment on the Star Nominations page - and while you're at it Sheki needs a few more comments too. Cheers Sertmann 23:53, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Picture from Wikimedia Commons

I realize there was a recent article adressing this, but I'm still confused (and didn't want my comment lost/not seen in that long section). So my question is, if it is a picture found in the Wikimedia commons, it is ok to use? I would like to use this [1] image with a GFDL permission. I would like to use it in the Nagorno-Karabakh article to show which parts are close to the front line (and thus more dangerous to travel). If the file type is not compatible(I think that's what someone said in the section on adding pictures), I can easily take a screenshot and cut out the image...but would that be ok? Thanks for the advice! AHeneen 18:32, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

Unfortunately no, we cannot use that image, because it is not licensed under a creative commons license (e.g., CC-by-SA). GFDL is not compatible with Wikitravel's licensing. Basically, you can upload images to Shared if your are the author, or if they have licensing that appears in the pulldown menu on the upload screen. And more detailed information is at shared:How to upload files.
I'm sorry to hear that this is confusing so many of our contributors. Maybe we should write some sort of a quick version on image licensing? --Peter Talk 21:20, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
Also, especially when it comes to pictures on Commons, it may be worthwhile to send a message to the file's author (on Commons or on Wikipedia or by e-mail or whatever) asking if they'd be willing to multi-license a GFDLed image as CC-by-SA. GFDL is not a very good license for images anyway; it was originally designed for documentation. Multi-licensing it as CC-by-SA is much more re-use friendly. LtPowers 08:09, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
I think the previous discussion under Image Licensing made it as clear as it can be. I suggest incorporating it into the documentation. I also think it would be better to have one documentation section giving all the information any contributor needs to know about image licensing, uploading, and policies, and which doesn't make any assumptions about what the contributor already knows (example: don't assume that contributors know that to use images on Wikitravel they have to upload them to Wikitravel Shared first). Sailsetter 10:29, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, a basic guide here on :en with links to the relevant articles on shared might be a very good idea. --Peter Talk 13:58, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

See also Wikitravel_talk:Copyleft#GFDL_and_Creative_Commons and discussion on Shared linked from there. Pashley 10:06, 27 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Where is the community?

OK, this maybe be a bit provocative and cocky, for someone who has been here a short time as i have. But hey, bear with me - I'm new :). While I've become absolutely enchanted by the scope of this site, and really impressed by the daily number of contributions. I'm quite disappointed with the community involvement of the place - it seems a bit like a large number of "anonymous" contributors, and very little soul - with the exception of few Sysops, and in particular Peter, whom i think is absolutely amazing, and it was his praise that made me want to do continuous contributions here.

Please note that I'm not targeting anyone (not least the janitors - it's obviously working, since the articles are all nice and clean). And granted, I'm a bit disappointed by the fact that my own star nomination which I worked really hard on, didn't get any more comments after two weeks. But still - the collaboration of the month is not working - which it really should at a place like this. I've been trying to patrol new edits - but can't keep up, because very few users seem to be chipping in doing this, and what about the welcomes? - which i think is one of the best things about this place (I tried doing some myself for the first time today). Did we loose all the fiery souls with the IB take over?

Come on people, you don't need to have sysop rights, to chip in on the janitorial work around here, look around the talk pages, welcome new users, join in on the different expeditions, talk in the pub, contribute with your opinion in the Destination of the month, of the beaten patch and star nominations sections - Make a name for yourself - please help give the place some soul and grow the community :)

- Stefan (Sertmann 20:14, 18 October 2008 (EDT))

AMEN! Edmontonenthusiast 20:05, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Pennsylvania School Projects

Just a heads up. Some teacher in Pennsylvania has apparently sent all her students here to each to their own article on a small town in Pennsylvania. I've been trying to keep up with style edits and removing copyrighted material, but it's a bit overwhelming. Could use some help. Texugo 01:36, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

Nice concept though! :) I'll try to keep a look out once a day or so... Sertmann 06:44, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
Is that why I just had to revert our Pennsylvania region names and delete a bunch of related copyvios from VisitPA? LtPowers 14:14, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Talk:Florida

Semi-protection may be in order here until whoever keeps vandalizing it (from a plethora of IP addresses) gets bored. I'd do it myself but my admin buttons aren't showing. LtPowers 14:14, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

Yet another ridiculous problem in the wake of the disastrous server move weeks ago. You'll see your sysop buttons if you use IE instead of firefox, but you can also access the functions through the history tab. Click history, then replace the word "history" in the resulting url with "protect" or "delete" and voila. What's more frustrating is trying to move pages... --Peter Talk 15:43, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
Well I wasn't going to point any fingers and was happy to let someone else handle it until the login issue was resolved. Nonetheless, I fired up IE and took care of it. Obviously not an ideal long-term solution, though. LtPowers 17:16, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
Talk:Florida isn't the only one, the same vandal(s?) have hit San Francisco/SoMa, the Chicago skyline guide, and Soma Bay. I dunno about the others, but San Francisco/SoMa I think could use some protection if anyone can access their admin features, because it's been the target of repeated vandalism. PerryPlanet 19:01, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
Done, done, and done. This is shaping up to be a potential problem, though, if this guy is willing to put his ads up on any old page. I was hoping it was just a Florida thing. Blocking the IPs won't help because they change so frequently. LtPowers 08:55, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
I know this is probably gonna come out the wrong way, but i work at a insurance company, and until January 1st, often have long vacant night shifts where i just sit around and wait for a fire or flooding to happen. I'd be happy happy to jump in and help with the admin stuff, and have my rights revoked when the FF bug is resolved (we use IE6 at work). I know this is far from ideal since I obviously don't really have complete grasp of the inner workings of this place yet, but I just felt like i wanted to extend the offer if you guys are feeling overworked - and in any case I'll just try to keep up with normal access stuff at the recent changes page Sertmann 20:21, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Now you stay quiet...

The map of Korea was made for me at my request, so there is no copyright infringement. Now I've asked administrators (Jpkotai[sic] and CJensen[sic])how to proceed in proving this but strangely it is only when I can improve the page do I not get a rapid response. It's been 3 days and I have yet to be told how to "unviolate" the map. [2]. Again, what do you need? and where should I post it?Paula 20:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

I probably can't help, because I'm asking questions about maps (Talk:Edmonton). But I will tell you I 'gree in the fact that it does sometimes take longer to get a respones. I know it's silly. Please, guys, reply to PAULAS specific issuue! Edmontonenthusiast 20:53, 22 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast
Paula, you need to get actual permission from the copyright owner to release the map under the terms of the Creative-Commons Share-Alike license. Copyright is a nasty area of the law where the Copyright owner is presumed to own and reserve all rights except when he Very Explicitly makes a rights grant. Coincidentally, this is exactly what I said in my vote for deletion, though I happened to use fewer words. -- Colin 21:23, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
Colin: I know. And yet again, you have not answered the question. Is the question that difficult to understand? I KNOW you want me to show you I have permission. My question is, HOW? Do you need a signed letter from the president? or just a letter from the creator? something with the letterhead? WHAT?...And this is exactly what I wrote in response to you 4 days ago. I have a written statement from the creator that I'll post with the upload of the map. If that's not good enough, I'm sure you'll let me know.Paula 21:32, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
You should get a permission, an email from the original creator will do, explicitly stating that he or she agrees to release the image into a license accepted on wikitravel - and then copy the content of the email into the image description page - we assume good faith around here. Sertmann 21:34, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
I responded yesterday at shared:vfd, which is a much better place for this conversation – cacahuate talk 22:06, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

Thank you Sertmann!Paula 20:06, 26 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] A question.... It's about maps...

Hey, I was wondering if it's ok to make a map in Photoshop Elements, and then save it as a PNG? Is that ok?

Edmontonenthusiast 23:44, 22 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

You want something that creates an SVG file... we then make a png version to use in articles, but we also upload the SVG, which allows for the community to work on maps together and update them when needed. Your time will definitely be better spent and your map will last longer if it's made as an SVG. The latest version Inkscape (free) is the preferred way to create them, but Illustrator I think also would work fine. I'm glad you're showing an interest in maps, it's definitely a bit of a learning curve involved, but it's rewarding once you get the hang of it! – cacahuate talk 02:13, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
So basically...I need to make two files-SVG and PNG? Can I make SVG in PS Elements? Also how do you upload two...hjust seperatelyt? Thamks! Edmontonenthusiast 12:14, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast
Technically, it doesn't have to be an SVG; it could be any semi-portable vector graphics format. Unless I'm misunderstanding the policy. Photoshop is a raster graphics program, though, so it's not the best choice for creating maps. A vector graphics program, such as Inkscape, allows the creation of high-quality images at any scale. If you find some of this jargon confusing, you can read up a bit on it here. LtPowers 13:50, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
I should NOT have to install programs to make maps. I don't get why I can't use Photoshop Elements. To me it's absurd. But, then again, I may be missing something. Please, do explain. And am I right, I need to make a PNG and SVG format and upload the two? And, also, can you make SVG format in PS Elements? THANKS! Edmontonenthusiast 13:54, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast
Also, where do you get, LNKSCAPE? Edmontonenthusiast 13:55, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast
You can create maps in any format you wish, including png's, but the community here on Wikitravel, prefer to have them in svg format - as the work almost ends up in higher quality, and other users can pick up on your work and improve it if they wish (which is the whole point of a wiki), you can't do that with a file created in Adobe Elements. Inkscape is available for free here[3] and illustrator (expensive) here[4] - Sertmann 16:07, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Thankyou, and what other programs give the SVG option. Or...could you just make it in PS Elements then open it in something else in which it can be made a SVG. Or you could saeve it as a jpeg, then convert it to SVG¿ How aboht those/ THanks! Edmontonenthusiast 17:35, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast
hmmm, how do I explain this... SVG's and PNG's are two completely different ways of creating an image. Because of this, you can't use a program that makes files like png, gif or jpg to make a svg image (I'm speaking in somewhat over simplified terms here). A program like Elements or Photoshop works in pixels, where each dot on your screen is assigned a color, while programs like Inkscape or Illustrator works in vectors, which you might remember from your math classes, this means you don't work in pixels but with elements - this also means you can scale a svg image to every size you wish, and still have it look exactly the same way. We prefer svg's exactly because you work with elements, that way you can change the line of a street, text, sign or anything else in the image, without having to delete it, and use the pen tool to redraw things pixel by pixel.
It does take some time getting used too (it will seem awfully stupid and complicated at first), but once you get the hang of it, it's a lot more intuitive way to draw something and anything, you will become much faster at drawing things, and the things you draw will look a lot better. Which is why almost all professional designers use Adobe illustrator or similar programs to do their designs. So after a while. the time you spend learning this, will come back 10 fold once you get the hang of it. Sertmann 18:03, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Actually is there any place it would be appropriate to stick the above explanation (i'd expand it a bit, and fix the awful punctuation), so it's available to other new users? Sertmann 18:12, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Wikitravel:How to draw a map already covers most of this... it could use some updating, but it's there. To Ed, you only have to create the map once, as an SVG. then it will have layers, will be high quality, and will be editable in the future by other contributors who can improve it and update it when things change. There's an option in Inkscape to export your SVG as a PNG, which takes about 10 seconds, and that's what we use within articles. So you only have to create the map once, but yes, you end up uploading 2 different versions – cacahuate talk 18:26, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Thansk for all the commmments! Edmontonenthusiast 18:33, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

[edit] Protected Status?

So I would like to know if, like on Wikipedia, protected and semi-protected status is available. I ask this, because there has been a bit (not obnoxiously excessive...but a bit) of touting on the Orlando article from people who are not Wikitravellers (ie edits list their IP address). I fully understand how Wikitravel is a wiki and thus everyone can contribute, but I would like to keep things in a consistent format and IP-address-people seem to do nothing but tout and what I'm about to describe. For those who know about "Orlando"...it's more like a small metropolis than a city (for instance the city proper has 220k residents but the metropolis has 1.2-1.5mil residents...not including far-flung suburbs, but just the contiguous urban area) such that a lot of people keep adding locations/attractions which are outside the city proper (myself included). If those of us Wikitravellers want to clean up the page and bring it to Wikitravel standards, we don't want businesses and naive IP-address-people to come along and add stuff outside the city proper. If protection is available, semi-protection would be nice...and if not, are there any plans/desire to add such? Oh, and to those who view the page...I have yet to clean up the touting, since it only came to my attention today and am to tired to do so. Thanks for yall's answers AHeneen, a member of the Wikitravel:Florida_Expedition AHeneen 02:10, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

We use protection very sparingly, usually when spambots are involved. We definitely never consider protecting pages based on misguided efforts, rather we try and guide new and anon users towards learning the right place to put things... when you do move the listings out, leave descriptive edit summaries so that users who look at the history can see why and where you moved the info to. I know it's annoying and sometimes time-consuming, but that's sorta how it's gotta be, we can't write these guides with just a handful of us, we need those new and anon contributors :) – cacahuate talk 02:17, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Wikitravel Dutch

message to all the dutch contributors of Wikitravel: There is also the dutch version of Wikitravel where you can contribute in your own mother tongue, we really need more contributors. Hoofdpagina Wikitravel --Canshun 04:03, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] How am I doing?

Could you check me districtifying Edmonton, and well, give me a progress report if you will, of how I am doing, I have done most of it. Edmontonenthusiast 14:10, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] What does this thing mean?

What does the number in brackets on RECENT CHANGES mean? like (diff) (hist) . . Talk:Edmonton‎; 16:48 . . (+259) . . Edmontonenthusiast (Talk | contribs) (→I was wondering about maps...Yeah, again crazy me... - ) See the bolded!Edmontonenthusiast 12:50, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

It means that that many characters (letters) have been added to the article in that edit. Negative numbers mean they've been deleted. And bold is used to highlight large changes in either directions. Jpatokal 17:42, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
Thanks, mate:)! Edmontonenthusiast 18:34, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Reloading

Why is it that when (sometimes) you do an edit to a page. And then look at it at a later time, and that stuff is not on there, but reloading the page brings that back..or sometimes you have to go into history and click the latest version to see it. How come that is? Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 19:36, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Some else may have the technical answer, but since the server relocation a few weeks ago, the interaction with the browser cache seems to be wrong. A forced reload on the browser solves the problem, just do a SHIFT-Reload from your browser to get the latest page. --Inas 20:20, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
Heh, thanks. I know how to reload. Any plans of when to get this fixed? For people unfamiliar, they may not (always) be able to see recent changes. I know this doesn't allways happen but still. Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 20:23, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Article Hierarchies

How much information to add to a lower level article that is already in a high level article? For example every article in Australia for coastal cities seems to have the same information on staying safe at the beach, sunscreen, swim between the flags, what to do in rips. There are three possible approaches I can see.

  1. Include the info at every level of the hierarchy
  2. Include the info at the top level only, and assume that every visitor to the city/town level article should be aware of the info at the top level
  3. Include a link to the top level information at the city/town level, when it is relevant to the City/Town.

I'm inclined to do the third. I know we want the articles to be printable, etc, but there is some information which is contained in the guide that should be accurate and verifiable, and it is certainly easier to do this if the information isn't repeated 100+ times in every sub-article. Any other opinions? --Inas 20:00, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

In general info should go at the highest level that it applies to... we don't need to describe what an autorickshaw is on every Indian city page, just in the India article. However if there's something specific about rickshaws in Bangalore that is relevant to the traveler, then it should be note on the Bangalore page. With safety info, I think pretty much the same should apply. But if riptides are a particular hazard at a specific beach in Australia, it should be noted I think on the city/beach page too – cacahuate talk 12:10, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
Yes, the third option is the way to go: generic/universal info at country level, and reminders plus links in from lower pages when applicable. Duplicating eg. safety info is still OK in my book (it changes rarely if ever), but fast-changing/extensive stuff like currency info, local cuisine etc should be on the main page only. Jpatokal 15:49, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
Do we really need links in every applicable article? It already leads to much duplication, and one-time contributors frequently expand every mention in lower level with some details that should belong to higher level (and sometimes are there already). See Spain and its regions / cities: Barcelona, Bilbao, San Sebastian as an example of much duplication. Why not the first option? --DenisYurkin 18:47, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
No, just when it's really necessary and applicable. If riptides are strong all along the California coast, then discuss that at California. But if they are particularly strong in Santa Barbara, then it should be noted on that page too, especially since it's a safety issue. – cacahuate talk 19:47, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
In tropical Australia just about every article has some mention of Crocodiles. The information in every article is different, with different advice, and a different assessment of the relative chances of becoming supper. This info is really quite important, almost to the point that it should probably be referenced. Again, I might look at just including a reference to the common information in the higher level article, and any specific information for the location in the lower level. I'll see if it results in too much ugliness. --Inas 01:39, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
I agree with the above comments that advice should be at the highest level (usually this would mean country, but for big cities sometimes at the city level.) I don't see the need for cross referencing in most cases, though it sometimes may be appropriate, usually through a brief internal link. In particular, I think (though it often isn't done, which is why I'm mentioning it) that comments on food, safety, and scams should be put on the highest level unless they refer to special local conditions: if moussakas and souvlaki are described in the Greece food section, there's no need to mention them in the Mykonos section, unless you're recommending someplace there that does these dishes especially well. But local specialties should be described on the specific local page rather than the national one. Sailsetter 19:19, 16 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Image Uploads

Is there any easy way to move pictures uploaded here, to shared - or do you have to vfd them, download them, upload them on shared with a different name, and change the link it the article? Sertmann 06:16, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

You have to re-upload them to Shared, but once you do that you can speedy delete it here, noting in the edit summary that you moved to shared. There's no need to change the title either, it can remain the same – cacahuate talk 12:13, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
Hmmm, don't I need admin privileges to speedy anything? Sertmann 15:57, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
Yes... so you'll be able to do yourself most likely after another week :) If there's some you want done now, leave a note on my talk page and I can do for you, or you can also just list them on VFD and an admin will do – cacahuate talk 19:43, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] page credits

what are they (like at the bottom of the page) and how do you get on 'em? keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 23:59, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

By editing the page, you get added to the credit. You full name will appear if you give it in preferences, or your nickname if you don't. Eventually, after many people have edited the page after you, your name will just be listed under the "others" link. Quick answer, its done automatically, and you don't have to do anything. --Inas 01:02, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
Oh that's so cool. Thanks! Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 11:08, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Colored text on project pages

I just opened the Votes for deletion page, only to find it cluttered with bold text, colors and what not - and this annoys the hell out of me, since it ruins my overview of the page (I toned it down a bit now - without asking, check here for old version). Is there a concensus out there that this is a no-no on Project pages (and articles for that matter), since a quick overview is pretty critical for those of us fulfulling janitorial duties (without having to fight a path through a rainbow). Sertmann 18:49, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

Guess I should put my 6.7809292999405338540 cents worth into this :>! I am the person who coloured up the page, heh. I honestly think it's inappropriate for articles themselves, but talk/user pages should have this allowed, it add a bit of personality to it and just something neat to look at, rather than the uniform. If it really was so bad, we really shouldn't have that option. I don't know...I was originally just testing out the colour, then I liked it so I tried it with other stuff:P. Also, if it was so bad, why don't we confront cacahuate-who usually changes the colour of the signature and ask caca to stop? I don't know. Just my stupid thoughts. Happy day of the dead, Edmontonenthusiast 18:55, 31 October 2008 (EDT)!
What you do with your signature is up to you for the most part, but a few of us mentioned yesterday in the very conversation where you learned how to color text that it was probably undesirable to the community to use it outside of signatures. Before introducing new things like that we tend to discuss it and agree upon it as well :) – cacahuate talk 19:54, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
I guess I am like a rebel to you all ;). Happy Day of the Dead, Edmontonenthusiast 19:57, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Map mashup

It would be nice to be able to see attractions, hostels and stuff on a map, even if not yet within the Wikitravel website. A web mashup would not be difficult to make if Wikitravel data was available in a somewhat standardized way. If every article uses templates such as <sleep> with an "address" field, then it is possible to transform these addresses into coordinates, for instance with the Google API. Is someone working on anything like this ? Thanks ! Nicolas1981 08:27, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

I've been thinking about that a bit too, although in a different way - I think it would be way cool, to harvest coordinates (e.g from google's API) and mix wikitravel listings with openstreetmap.org in a google maps type layer. I'd also really like to see a mix of googlemaps and wikitravel for the iPhone/iPod touch. Sertmann 14:55, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
Cool, let's work together! :-) Independently of the user interface we are going to provide, there are some tasks we can do in common:
  • write a parser that would extract all addresses from Wikitravel articles. This is a bit tricky because Wikitravel does not seem to provide database dumps, or have I missed them ?
  • fix the many syntax errors found in the <sleep> and similar listings.
  • geocoordinate the addresses through the Google API.
Would be so cool for people to find nearby cheap restaurants, or attractions within a daytrip distance. Cheers Nicolas1981 23:32, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
I have just read that nobody ever obtained data dumps [5]... Looks like Wikitravel is not so free as I expected :-( This seriously reduces my willingness to implement cool applications using Wikitravel data. It is a pity :-( Nicolas1981 09:58, 2 November 2008 (EST)
The Google Maps API terms of use limits using the Geocoder in this way. --Inas 19:09, 2 November 2008 (EST)
Sorry, what exactly are you referencing when writing "this way" ? Do you mean that what will be useful to us is limited to the Geocoder part of the Google API ? Cheers :-) Nicolas1981 02:09, 3 November 2008 (EST)
Instead of reinventing the wheel, take a look at shared:Tech:Listing map extension, as well as Wikitravel:How to create a map for existing WT/OSM mashup solutions. There's no need to use the Google API, OpenLayers lets you do layering very easily using OSM or other public data sources (cf. my pet project OpenFlights). Jpatokal 07:15, 9 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] M

I know this may sound like so dumb, but, what is the point really of showing that an edit is minor. Sorry if it brings up stuff/is stupid. Keep smiling ,ee talk 12:31, 4 November 2008 (EST).

Minor edits can be excluded from your watchlist. Some users don't want to see spelling corrections and other less-substantial changes appearing on their watchlists. LtPowers 12:33, 4 November 2008 (EST)
No I don't mind seeing it I just don't see the actually idea behind it...but thats me! Keep smiling, ee talk 21:17, 4 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Welcome messages

I just noticed how much we've been slacking off with giving new users the welcome message on their talk page. I think it is important-- I remember when I started here, Andrew gave me a welcome message almost immediately after I created my account, and it showed me that, yes, there are people out there paying attention, there is a community here. I think it's a good thing that can encourage new people to contribute more, so I want to ask everyone to pitch in to keep up with that. If you click on Recent changes and you see that a new account has been created, please just take a moment to create a welcome on their talk page. It doesn't take long at all. All you have to do is put:

{{subst:welcome}} -- ~~~~

If all the regular users here will just get in the habit of this, then no one will have to sit and do dozens and dozens of them in a row like I just did, plus new users may see the message during their first session and be inspired to come back for more sessions later. Thanks! Texugo 02:22, 8 November 2008 (EST)

What I usually do is let them edit a little-then I can make a comment that isnt totally uniform about their edits. Similar to my first message, thanks Jim. Keep smiling, ee talk 22:37, 8 November 2008 (EST).
The bigger problem is that most new users are not getting any message at all. Texugo 06:21, 9 November 2008 (EST)
I agree that people should be welcomed more, and I also agree with User:Edmontonenthusiast that we should probably wait until they actually make an edit. When I'm looking at Recentchanges I find the red or blue talk page link helpful to determine whether someone's new or not, and welcoming people before they make an edit confuses this. You all probably know this already, but you can go to Special:Contributions/newbies to see all the newcomers who have made contributions lately. Looks like they've all been welcomed, so good work to User:Edmontonenthusiast and User:Sertmann. JYolkowski 20:30, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Whoa, I had not seen that special page before! Really useful, thanks! --Peter Talk 23:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)
I meant to get in here and offer the possibility that it might not be a very good use of time to welcome all new users, for a couple of reasons.
1) most newly registered users aren't actually editing, so they probably just thought they had to register to use the site;
2) a semi-custom message, that at best gives advice or guidance, and at least a thank you for particular work, is much better than what looks like an automated message—that sort of community contact is really helpful in getting good new contributors to stick around;
3) welcome messages to users that are violating Wikitravel policy without letting them know that they are doing something wrong is potentially harmful, as they might take that as a cue to spread their policy violations further.
So, I'd actually question whether going through the new user log to hit everyone with a welcome message at once is useful. I'd argue that it would be far more useful to make sure everyone in the Special:Contributions/newbies list gets a custom message. --Peter Talk 17:07, 11 December 2008 (EST)
I agree, I think it makes the most sense to wait until a user minimally makes an edit and hence shows up in Special:Contributions/newbies, for both those reasons and the one I mentioned above. JYolkowski 18:01, 11 December 2008 (EST)
I agree. 1 personalised messages to a user starting to make constructive edits is worth 100 generic welcome messages to new registrations. --Inas 18:23, 11 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] CotM

I recently added two nominee's to the Wikitravel:Collaborations of the month in North America. I have yet to get a response excluding my own. I've even asked people in their talk to voice their opinions, I wasn't like doing it for just people to get comments I was doing it because I think they could give a good opinion. Thats all. Now I just don't get it. Keep smiling, ee talk 22:39, 8 November 2008 (EST).

Kid, you still need to learn the virtue of patience :o) That being said, I've made an entry there myself, including some ideas to try and change the dysfunctional concept, and would appreciate some comments. Sertmann 23:04, 8 November 2008 (EST)
At least you have 2 comments. I have NONE for two. Keep smiling, ee talk 23:13, 8 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Maps - Open Street Map

Hiya there! I was just wondering, I know there is Open Street Map, but to use reference for creating maps, is there any other site? I mean OSM is fine, it's just, if you want tto use if for reference, a lot of the maps are incomplete. Keep smiling, ee talk 15:32, 9 November 2008 (EST).

It depends. For U.S. locations, the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) has satellite images and topographic maps that are in the public domain (anything from the U.S. government is public domain). I don't know the situation in Canada. You might want to check out the NASA WorldWind application, but it's mostly going to have images of the U.S. LtPowers 16:41, 9 November 2008 (EST)
Good to know for US Cities. Anybody know about Canadian cities? Keep smiling, ee talk 17:07, 9 November 2008 (EST).
Check out the discussion over at OSM [6]. Finding compatible data is a pursued over there, and the chances are if there is an available source someone has either loaded it, or is looking into loading it. --Inas 18:44, 9 November 2008 (EST)
Also Wikitravel_talk:Copyleft#GFDL_and_Creative_Commons Pashley 20:21, 9 November 2008 (EST)
Hmm I don't se how that wiki link thing's helpful-sorry! Happy first day of snow in Edmonton, ee talk 11:37, 11 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] A question about docents that I'd like to have an answer.

I guess people thatve been a docent for a while would be the best for this, but I was wondering, is there a really large ammount of people asking questions or is it as I presume-small? Keep smiling, ee talk 17:21, 9 November 2008 (EST).

Wikitravel talk:Docents#Is this working?. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:24, 9 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Sorry - Images

Sorry for making another topic, I really am, but I want to get to the bottom of this. I really want to know-I've waited for a couple days, but do my images (most notably in Edmonton) look low-quality? Keep smiling, ee talk 17:52, 9 November 2008 (EST).

The technical quality (resolution, color range, etc) is just fine, and some of your pics (eg. Image:Winspear.JPG, Image:Skyline_wintaa.JPG) are IMHO artistically good as well. But photography is one of those arts that takes a lifetime to master, and you should pay a little more attention to light and framing, see eg. [7]. And patience comes in handy too, since great photos only happen when the conditions are just right... Jpatokal 03:54, 10 November 2008 (EST)
So other than those two, basically, they suck ;)? Keep smiling, ee talk 13:22, 10 November 2008 (EST).
Pictures are not just "good" or "bad", and beauty is the eye of the beholder. Any picture that accurately represents a local scene and/or makes the reader go "Ooh, that looks nice" is a plus in my book. Jpatokal 02:33, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Thanks, in yours or others opinions though, I'd like to know. Happy first day of snow in Edmonton, ee talk 11:38, 11 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] More than a babel?

Sorry if it shouldn't be discussed here, I couldn't find another place. Anyways if you check out some of the user pages in Wikipedia, like: [8], [9], [10], and [11] and look at the spots with babel's, you'd see there is a lot more other stuff. I was wondering if it is possible to have the same in WikiTravel, or to implement it? I think it'd be neat. Keep smiling, ee talk 19:16, 10 November 2008 (EST).

I like the 'language' the second user has in his Babel: "du-0 This person does not understand dumbass (or understands it with considerable difficulties, or does not want to speak dumbass)." When that 'language' is added to Wikitravel, I will certainly add it to my profile!  :)  :) AHeneen 00:53, 11 November 2008 (EST)
While I like the babel, Ithink we can get more and personailize! Good idea? Happy first day of snow in Edmonton, ee talk 11:33, 11 November 2008 (EST).
I agree. And lucky you...my hometown has seen snow only once in recorded history...about a half inch (a little more than 1cm) in 1977...no "first day of snow" for me!! AHeneen 13:08, 11 November 2008 (EST)
Hehe, here' it'll probably melt tomorrow. It'll probably be off and on until Dec 20 and then it'll stay until about March. Keep smiling, ee talk 13:12, 11 November 2008 (EST).
It's easy enough to add languages into the Babel in Wikitravel. I did it a while ago with Welsh (cy). I just copied the format for all the templates from one of the existing languages, and nicked the definitions for each level from Babel Wikipedia. Obviously if you're trying to set it up for a language you're not that fluent in yourself it makes it much easier if it's already there on Wikipedia. Tarr3n 03:03, 12 November 2008 (EST)
I don't think EE's looking for more languages. I think he/she'd like to have userboxes for other topics like those that are rampant on Wikipedia. LtPowers 09:51, 12 November 2008 (EST)
Eaxactly! I know about the languages. Keep smiling, ee talk 10:30, 12 November 2008 (EST).

So, would people be interested in having this-or is it already on this site? Keep smiling ,ee talk 00:51, 14 November 2008 (EST).

I'd really prefer we didn't. The consensus here has always been against userboxes. Just one reason why I'd prefer we don't is that it would mess up the special:allpages template list. --Peter Talk 01:00, 14 November 2008 (EST)
So then why can Wikipedia have it? TO me it's stupid, its a wonderful oportunity! Why do we need plain jane's when we can have better (not directed necessarily at WT). I don't get it. Seems like your missing out. Keep smiling, ee talk 10:30, 14 November 2008 (EST).
Missing out on what? This is a place for people to write a travel guide, sure we can have a little fun doing it, but this isn't really meant to be a travel version of mySpace. That said, I did create one for my user page, and I wouldn't be against travel-oriented ones like "this user is a couch surfer" or whatever, but I would hate to see it become like Wikipedia too, with endless irrelevant crap – cacahuate talk 04:03, 15 November 2008 (EST)

I found out ya can do more than a babel on Wikitravel, you just gotta know what you want and be aware you can't have the same options as Wikipedia. Check my page. ZOMG meteor on the prairies yesterday!!edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 01:34, 22 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Collaboration of the month revamp

My best intentions of trying to fix the current travesty, ended up in complete and miserable failure. But if nothing else, it shook things up a bit - and there is new discussion of a revamp that have been started on the talk page. it would probably get a bit more interesting, if people knew it was there, and contributed a bit to the (as of now) pretty one sided discussion. Sertmann 02:45, 11 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Wikitude

Don't know if anyone else saw this [12] article in the Sunday Times this week, entitled Why mobile phones are the new travel guides. I hadn't heard of Wikitude [13] before reading the article. It's a system that searches Wikipedia based on location. On the website you can type in an address and search for Wikipedia entries close to it. The Times article was focussed on the version that has been developed for the new generation of mobile phones (US: cell-phones) that have GPS functionality, so it will automatically find entries close to your location and show them on a map. Neat. And surely if it linked up with Wikitravel it would be even more useful? I'm guessing that for it to work we would need to get a lot better at entering lat/long data into our articles (does this even work at the moment?). Have any of the site owners/admins already been in touch with the relevant people at Wikitude? It would be good if we could get on board before someone like Schmap [14] beat us to it. Tarr3n 03:19, 12 November 2008 (EST)

I fully support this idea. It seems tailor-made for Wikitravel. We don't have the encyclopedic detail on attractions that Wikipedia does, but what we do have is locations for restaurants, bars, and hotels that could be cross-indexed with the user's current location. LtPowers 09:54, 12 November 2008 (EST)
We are terribly short on geotagged listings though. But if anyone wants/needs an area to test, all listings of Copenhagen/Northern suburbs have been geotagged. Besides, as far as i understand IB doesn't provide access to data anyway, and assume they want money (or a way to use ads) to open up. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 06:57, 13 November 2008 (EST)
I'm trying to look into this a bit more today as I think with the increasing availablity of mobile phones with GPS or at least map software installed this is surely the way forward for all travel guides. Unfortunately Wikitude is currently down for a server migration. However digging about on Wikitravel for more information about how these geocodes actually work, I found Wikitravel:Geographical_data_and_metadata, which seems to imply that the existing geocoding format we are using is not usable by any other applications anyway. Or am I reading this wrong? Picking up on Stefan's point about IB allowing access to the data, I don't really understand this and frankly it would make me question my ongoing contributions to this project. Surely all the data here is licensed for re-use? Tarr3n 06:50, 19 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] wikitravel slow?¿

I don't know about you, but every morning before about 8:40 am Mountain time (7:40 Pacific, 9:40 Central, 10:40 Eastern, in Europe 4:40, 5:40pm, etc. I believe) I always have WikiTravel really slow. It takes 2 minutes to load a page. But for some reason, after that time about, it's fine. I don't know. I really don't think it's my internet company otherwise it'd be like that all the time. I guess the question is why is it doing that and if anyone else is getting it and if they have it at different times. I also have used other computers that are like that until 9ish...so I don't know. Keep smiling, ee talk 14:02, 12 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Pages

I don't know how to delete pages that complete idiots have recently made. Could someone delete them and try and tell me how to for next time? Ugh this guy is pissing me off! Keep smiling, ee talk 18:05, 12 November 2008 (EST).

Only administrators can delete pages. You can nominate pages for deletion at Wikitravel:Votes for deletion, and an administrator will look it over.
Also, the answer to this question could have been easily found with a little research in the Help section. Wikitravel:How to is especially helpful. Just for future reference, you might want to check there for the answers first before posting here. :) PerryPlanet 19:07, 12 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Edmonton/Central nom

Hey, says I can promote here! So I nominated Edmonton/Central for Star nomination, Edmonton Central Star nom! If you can, comment! Thank you! Keep smiling, ee talk 18:35, 13 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Sleep?

Does a travel guide require a place to sleep? Because i have seen travel guides with nothing listed under sleep... is it easier to find places and just added them and then someone can fill in stuff? please inform me thanks --Hayfield 20:22, 13 November 2008 (EST)

It is required from my knowledge. If you see places without listings, you should research and look some up. You are not required to add all informaton from the get-go. You can do it over X amount of time. Definitely easier to just add them and wait for others to add info, but sometimes you may get anxious to add to it yourself, or worse, get impatient! Keep smiling, ee talk 21:10, 13 November 2008 (EST).
See the What is an article discussion, for ideas. Practically, however, as an example there are 322,000 place names in Australia. Adding blank templates for them without any understanding, and hoping someone will come along and fill in the details adds little or no value and would probably bring us no closer to our goals. However, if you know of a travel destination, and some information on it, but don't know if there is a place to sleep there, then add it and someone can come along with the additional details on accommodation and other stuff later. --Inas 21:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)
My policy, whenever possible, is to start off with at least one "useful" thing in any outline (sight, hotel, how to get there, whatever). Once you've got that grain of sand in there, it will turn into a pearl eventually. Jpatokal 05:10, 14 November 2008 (EST)
While exceptions can be made, users whose primary contributions are random articles for small places have a slightly higher bar to climb when creating new articles, especially when their login originates from Portland (Maine). Anything without a sleep listing that can't be justified is a candidate for (speedy) deletion, as discussed on Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy. -- Ryan • (talk) • 01:09, 14 November 2008 (EST)
I think it should be clarified that since hotel listings for Regions should be in the cities pages, and for huge cities should be in the district pages, often region and city pages end up having no listings under Sleep. Personally I think that region and huge city pages either should have the Sleep heading deleted or there should be a brief comment under it about accommodations in general with a statement that specific listings will be found in the city or district pages. But so far as I know this isn't required by policy and often isn't done, so many such pages have blank sleep headings. Sailsetter 19:08, 16 November 2008 (EST)

If you want you can have a small list of the best in a city in the main article. Keep smiling, ee talk 19:11, 16 November 2008 (EST).

I'm not sure this is a good idea. It opens the way for hotel owners and others with a special interest to give certain places a recommendation boost by putting them in the "best of" section. It also will encourage everyone to put all their listings in the main article, a tendency which is already a problem. Sailsetter 19:22, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Nah not much a good idea for sleep but it is possible. It's better for buy and do though. Keep smiling, ee talk 19:31, 16 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Person of the month?

I was wondering if we could have something like CotMs, DotMs, and OtbPs! This would be POTM (Person of the Month) where you'd nominate someone within the first errr...10 days of a month, then in the last week, they are decided, and for the next month they are person of the month. Thought it'd be neat to have - because we always honour articles but never really the people who do that work. The person should someone who has done extensive work, friendly, helpful, and has contributed in talk pages I guess. We could work out the specifics later-just wondering if people'd be interested? Keep smiling, ee talk 21:40, 13 November 2008 (EST).

No, no, no & no. That would be totallu out of touch with the spirit of this place, and I don't want this to turn into a popularity contest --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 00:56, 14 November 2008 (EST)
ayyy...it's just a thought! keep smiling, ee talk 10:29, 14 November 2008 (EST).
Don't worry, had i been upset I would have smacked an exclamation mark in your face as well :)-Sertmann

Alright. And I didn't mean it as an angry exclamation marke. Well, I didn't think that it would turn into a popularity contest-but that is a very good point, it may very well happen. But I know one site in particular [15], where they have Member of the Month...there's no popularity contest, but people do nominate anonymously. But then again, that's a forum, this is something different format. But I still do think people deserve applause for all the hard work they've done. I actually would've nominated you, :)! By the way remember to sign your name. Just so much effort is put into these things, people don't even realise! Anyone who has made a star article would definitely deserve this, I am really realizing how much work they put into it. Look at Chicago...that must have been brutal! I don't think we'll see another one of those for a long time-just because of it's brutalness! Anyway, I kind of got some off topic there. But yeah. Keep smiling, ee talk 15:52, 14 November 2008 (EST).

Singling out individuals would in a way go against the spirit of community, which is a concern for many of us. In the past the barn star has been a way to single people out - the idea being that anyone can let anyone else know "I think you've done good stuff" without it turning into an "employee of the month" kind of thing since at any given time there could be no barnstars handed out, or there could be dozens. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:07, 14 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Teaching English NOM

Hey, another nom, I made a [[Wikitravel:Star nominations#Teaching English]|star nom]] (again). It should be interesting! Keep smiling, ee talk 13:06, 14 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Wikitravel Press books now on Amazon

Just wanted to let y'all know that Wikitravel Chicago is now available on Amazon.com, with the rest of the catalogue coming along shortly (by the end of the month if things go according to plan). Wikitravel books are eligible for free super saver shipping, so you can include them in any Amazon order and have them sent for free in the US only if the total is over $25. See the blog, tell your friends, stuff your stockings! Jpatokal 09:21, 15 November 2008 (EST)

What about Canadians? Canadian's have Amazon.ca, where this book isn't listed. I guess you can only do it from lulu if you're Canadian, eh? Wait...can you even be a Canadian and sign up for lulu...looking at it you have English (US) or English (UK)...whoah am Igetting off topic! Keep smiling, ee talk 17:17, 15 November 2008 (EST).
Canadia will be added to the list after it becomes our 51st state on Jan 1st – cacahuate talk 18:36, 15 November 2008 (EST)
He!... Anyway Jani, I've actually been wondering about this for a while - are the sales figures public? Or is there anything you can say about the sales? Getting a destination up to print status takes alot of work, and my intuition tells me the sales would be pretty low for a niche guide likes this. Are a figure of 1000-2000 copies of the Chicago guide for example, completely unrealistic? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 18:57, 15 November 2008 (EST)
Sorry, sales figures are confidential. Jpatokal 23:08, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Well I found out anywhere in the world you can order from American Amazon...but you will hafta pay extra. I might get the Chicago one! Keep smiling, ee talk 22:11, 15 November 2008 (EST).

Unfortunately our new print partner CreateSpace supports only Amazon.com at the moment, but they deliver anywhere in the world. We're talking with Amazon Europe (who run .de and .co.uk), but I'm not expecting to get online there anytime soon. Jpatokal 23:08, 15 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Approval needed?

Hi, I'm new to Wikitravel and thought I could improve the Yekaterinburg article. I'm just a little confused if there is an approval needed? I edited the page yesterday and it was looking fine and is still listed as the current version, however, the article only shows the version from before I edited it. Is this expected behaviour? Do the main articles only get cached so often? Thanks in advance, FreakRob 13:12, 15 November 2008 (EST)

Nah, you don't need approval...Wikitravel recently underwent a serverchange and sometimes the latest version doesn't go. Although you can do one of the two things to fix that: 1) reload, if that doesn't work 2) go into history, click the latest version, and it should be there. Edit it again, and it should be fine. Keep smiling, ee talk 13:14, 15 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Wikitraveholism

Thought it'd be a neat thing to do on Wikitravel, I looked through archives, and it isn't there. So, maybe we could have this for Wikitravel, [16]? What tdo you thinnk? KEEP SMILING, ee talk 19:16, 16 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Red "!" on Special:Recentchanges

Hey! Well I have a question what the hell is this when you look at RECENT CHANGES: !...I don't get it. Its a red exclamation mark!!!! Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 17:29, 17 November 2008 (EST).

It means that the edit is not patrolled. See [17] for more information. BTW, do we use the patrolled edit feature at Wikitravel for anything and, if so, what does it mean to "mark [an] edit as patrolled" (i.e. does it mean (a) "the edit is correct", (b) "the edit isn't correct, but it's not obvious vandalism or spam", (c) something else)? JYolkowski 17:56, 17 November 2008 (EST)

It's showing up for 90 % of the edits on Recent Changes and this neva happened! Keep smiling ,edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 17:58, 17 November 2008 (EST).

Wikitravel:Recent_changes_patrol - note "registered for over 30 days". Dguillaime 18:27, 17 November 2008 (EST)
That's not true, I patrol over so often, it's just the frequency of edits are so massive it's impossible to keep up, with so few chipping in the work. On that note I actually have a question - Is it possible to mark all revisions up to I read through an article as patrolled - would be useful when a user does like 20 edits on page within a short span of time - it's get tiresome to mark every single edit as patrolled. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 20:48, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Yes, if you enable "enhanced recent changes" in your preferences, that will group edits by page, and you can mark as patrolled from the grouped "dif". --Peter Talk 20:53, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Thanks! I find the enchanted version a bit confusing and poorly designed, but maybe I should let it stay for a while and see if I can get used to it. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 21:04, 18 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Image use

I have two image-related questions:

  • 1) I wanted to upload a satellite picture of Hurricane Jeanne to use on the Florida page and possibly the city pages of various Florida cities. I know that the photographs taken by US government employees taken in the course of their duties is in the public domain for upload, but what about a satellite photograph taken by an agency(NOAA/NHC)? There is a FEMA photograph on the tornado safety page, but it lists the link to the photograph on FEMA's website. I know the website for the agency (www.nhc.noaa.gov/satellite.shtml), but I downloaded(right-click "save as") the picture a long time ago (2004) and the satellite imagery on the site is real-time and there is no archive to link to or to find the picture. Can I upload such a picture giving the link I mentioned?
  • 2) On Wikitravel Shared [18], there is information regarding the template for images from Flickr, but not licensing information (on "How to Upload Files" nor "Image Policy" nor "copyleft license" pages). Are all images on Flickr in the public domain or copyleft-license compatible? Could someone please explain the process of uploading pictures to Wikitravel shared (as I said, I've seen the info on the Fickr template)?
  • Thanks for the help!! AHeneen 02:34, 18 November 2008 (EST)
I can answer question (2). Flickr users can set their own copyright or licensing for each image they upload. Some (most, in fact) are listed as "All rights reserved", meaning they are not licensed for use here. Others have Creative Commons licenses. You can use the Advanced Search functionality to specifically find pictures with a Creative Commons License. So for example, searching on "hurricane" finds 384,166 results, but if I click on "Advanced Search", scroll to the bottom of the page and tick all 3 of the Creative Commons boxes, the results are filtered down to 8,721 results. If you click through to the photo page, there is information about the photo on the right-hand side of the screen, including licensing info which you can click on for full details of the license. Hope this helps. Tarr3n 05:31, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Thanks! Did I correctly do this: here's the file in Wikitravel Shared [19], and here in Flickr [20].
Looks OK to me... Tarr3n 06:20, 18 November 2008 (EST)
On a related note, Wikitravellers looking for photos of UK and Ireland destinations should check out Geograph [21], where all the photos have a CC license. If you click through to download a photo it even automatically generates the code you need for Wikipedia, which is easily adapted for Wikitravel upload. Very useful. Tarr3n 06:25, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Regarding #1, as long as the satellite image was taken by a USG agency (and not all the ones they use are), and as long as nothing has been added by a third party, the satellite images are in the Public Domain. --Peter Talk 13:50, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Alright, I've uploaded image #1, which can be found here given a Public Domain (created by a US gov't employee...) license and attributed to NOAA. I think it makes a nice addition to the Florida page! Thanks everyone for answering my questions!! AHeneen 20:34, 18 November 2008 (EST)

[